Curse

Drk Dervish · Jun 29, 2012, 07:22 PM // 19:22

I'm trying to make my team as lean as possible. Just wondering if there any other good idea to squeeze some damage from my battery or Defensive ST It can be either direct or indirect damage output.

I think I can afford to take out 1 healing from BIP and 1 Defensive skill from ST. Prefer to have multiple target non scatter damage skill.

I run AoG with a heavy damage mes team + SoS and SoGM

Daesu · Jun 29, 2012, 10:06 PM // 22:06

I wouldn't bother to squeeze every last bit of damage out of those two because in the tougher areas, they would be too busy keeping your team alive and that is what you want them to do.

The BiP is usually the weakest link who normally dies first. I would include skills like SoLS and perhaps Strip Enchantment. Your ST rit looks fine.

Relyk · Jun 30, 2012, 12:35 AM // 00:35

The correct spread for st is 11+1+3 communing, 10+2 spawn, 10 smite. oppressive gaze and rejuv shouldn't be on the bip bar.

Drk Dervish · Jun 30, 2012, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Actually the spread is 10+2 spawn, 10+4, 11 smile = 199/200, i prefer 11 smile for 2 more attack pts. 14 and 15 don't make a lot different with ST and Armor of unfeeling.

Hmm interesting is there a reason why they can't be together oppressive gaze?

Relyk · Jun 30, 2012, 07:14 PM // 19:14

A point in communing makes more of a difference than a point in smiting. Preferably, it would be 12/10/8 or 11/11/8 but st rit can afford running sup and major in this case. Feel free to ignore me if you inconsolable on this point. I'm not sure why you're running rune suicide on a healer. Maybe to reduce cost of bip (even though ghostmirror light is in there to compensate anyways) or because you have ST. Oppressive Gaze and bip have shit scaling. the correct spread for the necro is 12 rest/10+1+1 sr/8 blood. You can run 8+1 blood if you want a marginal benefit from blood bond. you can drop a point in soul reaping for enfeebling blood, as it's a superior source of weakness to oppressive gaze, because oppressive gaze is just bad. If you want to maximize damage, use strip enchantment; the rest of the blood magic line sucks unless you want angorodon's gaze/foul feast.

Drk Dervish · Jun 30, 2012, 08:14 PM // 20:14

I running Smite at 11 because it give me 20+, I run Grenth' Aura with my AoD which take -20 damage. It a good way for my to see what kind of damage my scythe is pumping out and work to my team (ie make add some foe softener skill to get more damage.)

There isn't really a god define "CORRECT SPREAD" on things (maybe if i put communing at stupid down pts like 10). It all about how you use it and what your custom too. I look very close on my team during test and for my team the different between 14 or 15 communing make little difference. But i guess you can say the same for smiting a 10 and 11. So no reason to make a big point on it.

On other note your are right oppressive gaze isn't as effect damage skill as I believe. I'll swap out for strip enchantment which fit much better.

As for Bip again 12/12/8 "correct spread". I believe you should be able to tell the reason for pumping blood to 13 and not 8 in this case (and is not for the benefit of Blood Bond).

Daesu · Jun 30, 2012, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relyk

I'm not sure why you're running rune suicide on a healer. Maybe to reduce cost of bip (even though ghostmirror light is in there to compensate anyways) or because you have ST. Oppressive Gaze and bip have shit scaling. the correct spread for the necro is 12 rest/10+1+1 sr/8 blood. You can run 8+1 blood if you want a marginal benefit from blood bond.

He is running 10+3 blood on the BiPer to hit the +6 energy regen breakpoint for BiP which returns 20 energy per cast. The 8+1 blood breakpoint is more suitable for a Blood Ritual build to hit the 12s breakpoint.

Because of the steep life sac of BiP, it is more worth it to use BiP if you intend to hit the +6 breakpoint since the life sac is the same. Otherwise, you should consider using Blood Ritual instead.

On my own build, I have a monk smiter for SoH and my ST rit is a Rt/P with FallBack so they dont have to compete for attribute points.

Drk Dervish · Jun 30, 2012, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

On my own build, I have a monk smiter for SoH and my ST rit is a Rt/P with FallBack so they dont have to compete for attribute points.

Yes in the past I run ST Rit as Rt/P and smiting at another hero. But I found i can get away from 15 to 14 communing which I swap the SoH down to the ST Rit. Also because lot of time i see my ST Rit is not short of energy which is why I think he can afford to low -1 energy pip. And the other attack caster that was carrying the SoH can have full energy pip. It was a tactical swap I make in my point of view if you understand what im say.

Daesu · Jun 30, 2012, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drk Dervish

Yes in the past I run ST Rit as Rt/P and smiting at another hero. But I found i can get away from 15 to 14 communing which I swap the SoH down to the ST Rit. Also because lot of time i see my ST Rit is not short of energy which is why I think he can afford to low -1 energy pip. And the other attack caster that was carrying the SoH can have full energy pip. It was a tactical swap I make in my point of view if you understand what im say.

Energy shouldn't be much of a concern since you have a BiPer.

One difference between 15 and 14 communing is a level difference in your spirits which translates into more health and armor for them. Besides, I like having +26 damage from my SoH. In any case, if the differences are minor to you, then so be it. It is a matter of balancing defenses vs offenses which also depends on your play style and the areas which you frequent.

Relyk · Jun 30, 2012, 11:26 PM // 23:26

I said BiP had shit scaling, that was specifically referring to the fact the next breakpoint after 8 is 13. Investing 10 points in blood and using a sup rune is a waste when the only benefit is an extra point in regen. I don't know how aggressive you run your builds that you need 13 spec bip to manage energy, because bip at 8 is more than enough for a well-designed setup and such a lovely breakpoint. 13 spec is complete overkill. If you want higher spec in soh, you'd be running it on roj monk, ua smite, or sos melee biotch rather than on the st rit. Trying to run soh at 11 on ST comes close to gimping the bar. If you feel you can get away with it, it'll work, but your setup will be less flexible.

If you want to squeeze out damage, using a RoJ monk for 16 spec SoH and then bringing binding chains on ST rit is ideal for more offense as a melee player.

Drk Dervish · Jun 30, 2012, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relyk

I said BiP had shit scaling, that was specifically referring to the fact the next breakpoint after 8 is 13. Investing 10 points in blood and using a sup rune is a waste when the only benefit is an extra point in regen. I don't know how aggressive you run your builds that you need 13 spec bip to manage energy, because bip at 8 is more than enough for a well-designed setup and such a lovely breakpoint. 13 spec is complete overkill. If you want higher spec in soh, you'd be running it on roj monk, ua smite, or sos melee biotch rather than on the st rit. Trying to run soh at 11 on ST comes close to gimping the bar. If you feel you can get away with it, it'll work, but your setup will be less flexible.

If you want to squeeze out damage, using a RoJ monk for 16 spec SoH and then bringing binding chains on ST rit is ideal for more offense as a melee player.

Where do you see a super rune. The attib is 10+3, and 8 +1 which mean 10+1+2, 8+1. I find binding chains rarely is enough to combo with ROJ, also it cause scatter ok with mm but I find it not that good with single melee. Btw I do run ROJ (mainly in area that holy damage can shrine) but find it good when your running 2 -3 roj just 1 roj isn't worth the bar and trouble to make them work good.

As for over kill on 6+ pip when you play 2 to 3 mes with pure dom/ill damage skill and no Insp you will appreciate that extra +1 pip and paying only -35hp for it is well worth the trade off.

Yes commute at 15 the ST sprite does gain 1 extra lv which give or take translate 5-7 more attack. ST Rit does have enough energy and time to keep with spawning new sprite just as fast as at L15. Which is why i choice to push them harder. But if adding a pts back for some tough area isn't hard either.

Daesu · Jun 30, 2012, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relyk

I said BiP had shit scaling, that was specifically referring to the fact the next breakpoint after 8 is 13. Investing 10 points in blood and using a sup rune is a waste when the only benefit is an extra point in regen. I don't know how aggressive you run your builds that you need 13 spec bip to manage energy, because bip at 8 is more than enough for a well-designed setup and such a lovely breakpoint. 13 spec is complete overkill.

Actually you only need a major rune, not sup, for 10+3. He has a choice to bring down his blood magic level but at lower levels, the difference between BR and BiP gets smaller, so much so that BR may yet be a safer solution since it has a lower life sac and it also doesn't take up the elite slot.

It is up to you, more energy for your team or more safety for your n/rt.

Viti Ligo · Jul 02, 2012, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Imo, best way to add damage to ST rit bar is to make it communing/channeling hybrid and put splinter weapon and Ancestor's rage in. So you can rise all attributes with runes...

Drk Dervish · Jul 02, 2012, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viti Ligo

Imo, best way to add damage to ST rit bar is to make it communing/channeling hybrid and put splinter weapon and Ancestor's rage in. So you can rise all attributes with runes...

I think anyone do Communing 99% of the time their going for spirits spam build bar. It should beet go with Spawning Power to boost your spirits life. Channeling only have 5 spirits but most ppl only use SoS and Bloodsong (cause the other 3 is conditional passive spirits might or might not be to useful at the end of the day) in that case SP isn't that a big deal to invest heavy one for just 2 spirits so you can hybrid to other attib. Usually resto for some healing skill.

Viti Ligo · Jul 03, 2012, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drk Dervish

I think anyone do Communing 99% of the time their going for spirits spam build bar. It should beet go with Spawning Power to boost your spirits life. Channeling only have 5 spirits but most ppl only use SoS and Bloodsong (cause the other 3 is conditional passive spirits might or might not be to useful at the end of the day) in that case SP isn't that a big deal to invest heavy one for just 2 spirits so you can hybrid to other attib. Usually resto for some healing skill.

It seems I should have been more accurate about the build I had in mind. Due the nature of Soul Twisting, Shelter and the way hero Ai uses ST, it is not wise to put more than 2 or max 3 spirits in ST bar. So no channeling spirits in ST bar just shelter and either union or displacement. The way channeling can bring damage to the ST bar is, as I mentioned, splinter weapon and Ancestor's rage. I was thinking that you should replace SoH on your ST with Splinter weapon and Smite hex with Ancestor's rage and put 10 points + rune to channeling. That bar , however, WILL require BiP in team or risking hero run out of energy.

Drk Dervish · Jul 03, 2012, 04:31 AM // 04:31

I see my SoS Rit already have splinter and ancestor's rage.

Please read my original post. "I run AoG with a heavy damage mes team + SoS and SoGM".

Whirl E Vic · Jul 03, 2012, 12:58 PM // 12:58

i've put explosive growth on my ST Rit. Is it great? No, but it is in spawning power, it's "fire and forget" with a ~1 minute duration and it lets him do a little bit of damage as a result of doing his main job.

Šiljo · Jul 03, 2012, 02:34 PM // 14:34

I'm pretty sure eg is usefull only with rt/n mms.

Drk Dervish · Jul 03, 2012, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Šiljo

I'm pretty sure eg is usefull only with rt/n mms.

Agree if your ST is putting a sprites in the middle of the field near the foe there some major issue right there. Also Ai hero will rarely place a sprites in the middle of the field anyways unless you flag him their which is counter productive fi you do.